Community Discussion → Spades Strategy - Bid the score
Spades Strategy - Bid the score
Midnightguy
Years ago on other forums and few years ago on this previous forum board on this site, I created a number of threads offering insights on the game of Spades in hopes that other players who read the threads may learn some new strategies.
Allow me to go over a common problem many players face when playing Spades. When it's their turn to bid, many players tend to bid the strength of their hand. Many problems can arise if they aren't careful and only bid the strength of their hand. Allow me to present two examples here:
Example 1# - All examples I show well have us playing as South:
Score:
North/South - 460 - 0 bags
East/West - 212 - 2 bags
Bids:
South: ?
West: ?
North: ?
East: ?
South's Holdings:
Spades: A, Q, 9, 4, 2
Hearts: K, 8, 4
Diamonds: A, 9, 4
Clubs: K, 5
Here we have an example where we are South and we have what appears to be a solid 5 bid. We can expect at least 2 tricks from our spades, the A of diamonds, and the K of hearts and clubs. Let's go ahead and click that 5 as our bid...
South: 5
West: 4
North: 1
East: 4
What a sudden turn of events! East and West team has taken the bid a total of 8 tricks vs your 6 to make the bid 14! Your partner North bids 1. The hand plays out and turned out North had no clear trick in their hand and you are now set unable to cover their trick for East came out and trumped your K of hearts. East and West set your 6 bid total and made their bid exactly and now the score follows:
North/South - 400 - 0 bags
East/West - 312 - 2 bags
Still you have a comfortable lead and you say so what we are still going to win! Let's look at next hand: the two of you get only a 3 bid total vs their 5 and nil bid which they both made and now suddenly they are in the lead!
North/South: 432 - 2 bags
East/West: 465 - 5 bags
What happens next? Who knows now maybe your team will get lucky and get the better cards or a nil to pull out the win, but odds are East/West are going to win and all this because one set and you were less than 40 points away!
This is a problem that many players face when playing spades, they bid their cards and fail to notice the score. It's easy to want to bid on good cards but, to be a better Spades player you have to bid your cards smartly. Always remember you still win the game with the score of 500, 501, 550 or 600. There is never the need to bid more than you need to win a game, plus with our example if we had only bid 4, our 5th trick would have covered our partners bid of 1 and we win the game with 500.
Example 2#
North/South: 275 - 5 bags
East/West: 450 - 0 bags
Bids:
South: ?
West: ?
North: ?
East: ?
South's Holdings:
Spades: J, 4
Hearts: A, 10, 7, 4, 2
Diamonds: 6, 4
Clubs: K, 6, 3
Here we see we have a weak hand of perhaps a 2 bid or even 1 pending how the clubs fall and if we can count our K of clubs. However, some players would bid nil here! If you are a player who would consider bidding nil here, then your partner might as well congratulate the other team on their win unless if by sheer blind luck they have an 8+ bid and can set East/West's bid and cover your nil at the same time. Odds of this happening? Forget about it! A nil would do no good here and East/West if they are smart, would just bid 5 total and even be happy to let you make your nil! If you're not at least making a bid to make an effort to stop East/West making a 5 bid total, then your game is over now. You made your nil congratulations! You get 375 + whatever your partner North bids to lose by still over 100 points. Again if you don't outscore your opponents in the 500s, it won't matter what score you lose with be it -200, 50, 499 to their 500.
The main point of this post is: You should not always bid the strength of your hand and always pay attention to what the scores are first.
Allow me to go over a common problem many players face when playing Spades. When it's their turn to bid, many players tend to bid the strength of their hand. Many problems can arise if they aren't careful and only bid the strength of their hand. Allow me to present two examples here:
Example 1# - All examples I show well have us playing as South:
Score:
North/South - 460 - 0 bags
East/West - 212 - 2 bags
Bids:
South: ?
West: ?
North: ?
East: ?
South's Holdings:
Spades: A, Q, 9, 4, 2
Hearts: K, 8, 4
Diamonds: A, 9, 4
Clubs: K, 5
Here we have an example where we are South and we have what appears to be a solid 5 bid. We can expect at least 2 tricks from our spades, the A of diamonds, and the K of hearts and clubs. Let's go ahead and click that 5 as our bid...
South: 5
West: 4
North: 1
East: 4
What a sudden turn of events! East and West team has taken the bid a total of 8 tricks vs your 6 to make the bid 14! Your partner North bids 1. The hand plays out and turned out North had no clear trick in their hand and you are now set unable to cover their trick for East came out and trumped your K of hearts. East and West set your 6 bid total and made their bid exactly and now the score follows:
North/South - 400 - 0 bags
East/West - 312 - 2 bags
Still you have a comfortable lead and you say so what we are still going to win! Let's look at next hand: the two of you get only a 3 bid total vs their 5 and nil bid which they both made and now suddenly they are in the lead!
North/South: 432 - 2 bags
East/West: 465 - 5 bags
What happens next? Who knows now maybe your team will get lucky and get the better cards or a nil to pull out the win, but odds are East/West are going to win and all this because one set and you were less than 40 points away!
This is a problem that many players face when playing spades, they bid their cards and fail to notice the score. It's easy to want to bid on good cards but, to be a better Spades player you have to bid your cards smartly. Always remember you still win the game with the score of 500, 501, 550 or 600. There is never the need to bid more than you need to win a game, plus with our example if we had only bid 4, our 5th trick would have covered our partners bid of 1 and we win the game with 500.
Example 2#
North/South: 275 - 5 bags
East/West: 450 - 0 bags
Bids:
South: ?
West: ?
North: ?
East: ?
South's Holdings:
Spades: J, 4
Hearts: A, 10, 7, 4, 2
Diamonds: 6, 4
Clubs: K, 6, 3
Here we see we have a weak hand of perhaps a 2 bid or even 1 pending how the clubs fall and if we can count our K of clubs. However, some players would bid nil here! If you are a player who would consider bidding nil here, then your partner might as well congratulate the other team on their win unless if by sheer blind luck they have an 8+ bid and can set East/West's bid and cover your nil at the same time. Odds of this happening? Forget about it! A nil would do no good here and East/West if they are smart, would just bid 5 total and even be happy to let you make your nil! If you're not at least making a bid to make an effort to stop East/West making a 5 bid total, then your game is over now. You made your nil congratulations! You get 375 + whatever your partner North bids to lose by still over 100 points. Again if you don't outscore your opponents in the 500s, it won't matter what score you lose with be it -200, 50, 499 to their 500.
The main point of this post is: You should not always bid the strength of your hand and always pay attention to what the scores are first.
Juggler
I agree with the point you are trying to make here, and am glad to see someone posting this kind of thing again.
However I would argue that your analysis is flawed.
In example 1, why would South bid any more than 3? This allows North to bid 1 nomatter what he has in his hand, and the game is won. A 4 bid by South adds extra risk with no reward.
In example 2 I have real issues with your analysis. I appreciate the point you are trying to make, but the example provided doesn't really support it.
Consider the only three possible scenarios regarding East / West cards:
Scenario 1 - They have an easy 5 bid between them and will bid it no-matter what you do.
Scenario 2 - They don't have anything like 5, and will not bid it even if you nil.
Scenario 3 - They have close to a 5 bid, and may risk it if you nil.
In scenario 1 it doesn't matter what you bid... game is lost. You might as well nil.
In scenario 2 you have just thrown away 100 points (and any chance of winning) if you don't nil.
In scenario 3 a nil bid may tempt EW to overbid their hand. If you don't nil then they will likely bid safely and win in the next hand.
My conclusion would be that in every scenario nil is the best bid. If EW bid 5, then forget about making the nil and try to set them. Nobody likes setting their own nil, but I think it's the only way to stay alive in this game.
Midnightguy
Thank you for the feedback Juggler, I'll be happy to share my thoughts on the game. I'll go over some other stratgies and then even give some quizzes on some of my past games where I'd ask what is the "best" bid.
You are correct, a 3 bid by South is correct bid on example 1. I think I had to change the numbers around and example and forgot to fix the numbers. That is one of my flaws time to time when I write, I have an idea in mind then I change it around then fail to noticed fixed the entire idea. A three bid by South plus a simple 1 bid by North would finish the game with the score of 500. If we had bid 5 total the winning score would have 510, so my example was incorrect by the numbers because I had said would have won with 500 by a 5 bid. Thank you for pointing that out.
The main point I'm trying to make on example 2 is, many people bid useless nils when making it will only close in the gap you lose the score by. I hear some many players say "Oh well lets see if I make it anyway! ha ha ha" It's passive play and you're not really examining ways to continue the game or look for possible sets. I could have made an easier example to show where if you are the last bidder and making the nil would do no good.
I agree with you that there is always "What ifs.." however when I examine situations to any end game situation, I look at what is "likely" to happen. There is always a chance your partner North will have an exceptional hand where both East/West will be lucky to make a 2 bid total. How often though, do we see a team bid less than 5 after one player from another team has less than a 2 bid? Another point we must examine here, the first bidder is always at a bind, not getting any information from the other players by their bids. There are some examples pending on the scores that if you are the first bidder, you should always consider bidding nil. I'll go over them on another post. Plus one more things, lets assume unless otherwise stated, East/West are seasoned players and will make the correct bid.
You are correct, a 3 bid by South is correct bid on example 1. I think I had to change the numbers around and example and forgot to fix the numbers. That is one of my flaws time to time when I write, I have an idea in mind then I change it around then fail to noticed fixed the entire idea. A three bid by South plus a simple 1 bid by North would finish the game with the score of 500. If we had bid 5 total the winning score would have 510, so my example was incorrect by the numbers because I had said would have won with 500 by a 5 bid. Thank you for pointing that out.
The main point I'm trying to make on example 2 is, many people bid useless nils when making it will only close in the gap you lose the score by. I hear some many players say "Oh well lets see if I make it anyway! ha ha ha" It's passive play and you're not really examining ways to continue the game or look for possible sets. I could have made an easier example to show where if you are the last bidder and making the nil would do no good.
I agree with you that there is always "What ifs.." however when I examine situations to any end game situation, I look at what is "likely" to happen. There is always a chance your partner North will have an exceptional hand where both East/West will be lucky to make a 2 bid total. How often though, do we see a team bid less than 5 after one player from another team has less than a 2 bid? Another point we must examine here, the first bidder is always at a bind, not getting any information from the other players by their bids. There are some examples pending on the scores that if you are the first bidder, you should always consider bidding nil. I'll go over them on another post. Plus one more things, lets assume unless otherwise stated, East/West are seasoned players and will make the correct bid.
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