Why Not Join the leagues toghter?

Why not join these little bitty leagues toghter and Start 2 leagues max one Reg Spades league and One Alt spades league

And get the league back to where they once was where peeps love to come play again.

What I seeing and hearing more and more is all the league Players is getting tired of begging for games and leagues opening and closing down. If want to keep leagues around before they vanish completly The ones that is running these leagues needs to pull toghter as one so the players can start pulling toghter again.

For the ones that runs these leagues and captians of the teams sets the examples of what they want from us the players.

And when you leagues cant come toghter dont see us players really supporting in the way that it will take to bring league playing back to where it needs to be.

Really hope someday We can See A active league that comes in and playes for the fun and competion.

As for me I Tired of trying to keep up with the opening and shutting down of leagues and moving around. I like to play and usually I where the most active league is but Since zone seems that the active ones only stay active for little while tell something dont go someones way and poof there goes another one.

Amen and very very well said

The people running the leagues do pull players together. The people choose the ladder that best suits them. Just as there are several different kinds of people, it would only make sense that several kinds of leagues should be offered. If there can be a ladder that ALL players will be attracted to and stay solely committed to, why not make it or help someone else make it?

True about all different kinds of people, But as we have seen for sometime know the several league choices is not working it is slowly loosing the few loyal leaguers that is left. And when you really look into it how many of the leagues that is left the players are in almost all of the leagues anyways. As i stated above yes still leave a choice Reg spades league and a alt spades league but really when it comes down to it how different is all the leagues anyways most got about the same rules.

And if the leagues here would pull toghter be offering something no other gaming site has and that is a very active league and bet we would start seeing alot that has left leagues to never return would start coming back. For lets look at why they leaving in the first place tired of beging for games. And most want to come in and play relax and enjoy freinds.

One word Answer - Politics...... um ok let me stretch that to 2 words...... Politics Drama

SixPack_Kid you bring up some great and valid points and if the leagues do not see this and come up with some type of solution then as you have said players are leaving and the site is not growing.I do not see why one large league or 2 good size leagues cannot work and if it is about Drama and Politics then I say it is time for the owners to maybe intervene here.

The question was "Why not join the leagues together". The answer Politics and Drama is not the answer. The leagues that are playing in GamingPeak are all a bit different in their own way. The rules for each league vary in some areas. What some leagues allow other leagues may not. When you go shopping wouldn't you find it rather sad if you only had one store to choose from? What if you want to go out for a nice dinner and find only one restaurant? Each of our leagues have something a little different then the others. As for games being down, it always happens this time of year with the weather getting nicer and people finding themselves getting out a bit more.

Politics and Drama have nothing to do with our decision to let a league form or not form in GamingPeak.

It is hard to compare going shopping to playing spades online.The point being made here is very clear.To the point of the time of year is in question also as the numbers have been declining well before spring or summer has arrived.

True shopping and resturants is hard to compare her in one way yet in another really not. For there is way to many gaming sites out there and all is doing same thing. So when you say that heck there is plenty of choices already all over the net. So with that point being fullfilled just makes sense to do something different from everywhere else. There will always be choices and places to shop no doubt but wonder what would happen to a gaming site that offered only 2 leagues and they had to be grown and active before another came in. believe might would help the gaming site in long run for the teams and leagues that played there no they could grow and stay active and the player that played in the league would be happy for make alot easier for them to get league games about all day.

Same ole story about summer if not summer it winter kids in school. So that summer deal really dont have alot to do with much

seen this for years always holler summer but not a big change in # of people you see total in gaming site anytime during the year.

Biggest reason i see that league not pull toghter and make one reg spades and one alt spades league is so many have ran a league or had a hammer and not like when they dont got that so they get the idea of running a league.

Power struggle The real loosers is the players And the cappys that has worked so hard to get there team up and the players that love to play. Just to get them in a non active league room and watch them get discoraged and leave league for good. sometimes spades online spades completly.

I will Say thank You all For the answers And Maybe Some will See The light. And hopefully pull closer toghter before distruction of leagues. I for one always love leagues And playing in active league but since zone been very hard finding acitive ones. This site did have the only 2 active leagues there was for long time and now they have split and just like the other sites.

Sadly Vixen, politics and drama more often than not are the reasons splinter groups break away from one league and decide to form an other.... even more sad people hold on to on-line grudges for a long time. I have played in way to many leagues, seen the internal power struggles, the cliques etc...... such a shame that folks can't just play a game of spades, report to the league as required and all try to remain on friendly terms. It happened in the zone, it has happened here and no doubt it happens on other game sites too that allow leagues to have a room to play in..... that's just the way humans are sometimes - less than than they can be..... and yep in my time I have got sucked in by some of the drama as Last Cannuck very well knows cuz he was on the same team I was, so I am not gonna try paint myself as better than others.... tho I hope these days I manage to stay outta that kind of garbage.

I agree the league rooms are suffering due to the number of players *playing* at the tables. I can't say how many times I would addy, begging anyone for a game, 20mins later still nothing and the room shows more then enough to fill a table; but it has been many. I can't fault the leagues for that. Players in any given room need to keep it active. If they don't then there will be times when someone wanting a game will leave, go elsewhere, and play there, and that is the problem.

I believe with the three leagues here each offers you something different. One league emphasizes *ratings*, another emphasizes *sit and play*, and yet another emphasizes equal play in both *reg and alt* format games. I read that it is politics and drama yet it is the players that determine where they want to play. I've often wondered if it is position that does not allow a merge in leagues or if it is what each league represents. Which ever it may be, you are the one in control. It is up to you to support your league, if you have a nic in all three, then you are only adding confusion to the problem. I believe it is time for you to make a decision, and that is, which league is best for you. Realizing the longer you play them all the longer the problem will persist.

Well said, Speedtrap.

Being that I previously played on the Zone for years, as many of us have, I understand what you are saying about larger leagues. On the Zone, you had many players in various league rooms. Many leagues quite the same w/ a little different feel, while others completely different from the rest. Things were not really based on a community, mostly due to the bulk of players. This is what I believe to be a major factor in all this. Leagues chose to not communicate w/ each other and go their own ways. When in fact, the best option and choice they had was to get together and decide as one, which sites offered the best for the future of their leagues.

I would not blame the leagues who chose to offer a different place to play on GP, any more than those who split up the bit of community left between the bulk of players.

Well said about playing them all for Me I dont play in all the leagues anymore and only play in one. And for as jumping ship to the new ones that forms done with that too. I stoped that jumping ship to other leagues before gp made the change to this new site.

followed friends and peeps to the new leagues to watch them be active for short time and then fold and go right back to where they left. Another reason I started this post.

Great point Wabbit about the leagues all doing their own thing when the Zone closed instead of acting together to ensure they took all the zone players to one location. I tried to convince them GamingPeak was the place to play, set up an on-line meeting for representatives of the leagues to meet with Shutter before the Zone changed, but despite all that each admin team decided that "they knew best". I guess thought I knew what was best too - meaning GamingPeak. I thought that over time players would play around in all the sites and settle on one which was best, and gradually play there more than anywhere else and leagues not on that site would face diminishing activity levels accompanied by requests from their members to move to the site that was seemingly the one where players wanted to be and so they would either do that or fold leaving the players with no leagues but those on the favoured site but that never seemed to happen.

I go way back to the Zone myself...

Permit me to 'over-simplify' my thoughts on the matter -

There were the larger sites (Zone, Yahoo, & Pogo as examples) that attracted huge numbers of players BECAUSE they offered a wide variety of popular games and then there were the existing, and 'just-starting-up', game sites that offered a greatly reduced variety of popular games.

Mostly, it was a matter of Player Loyalty to their particular site... chosen because of the games offered, number of people 'available' to play, any other features / enhancements offered, and the ability to chat with / message other players... which seemed to be a higher-ranked feature.

Loyalty to the Zone's Classic format has got to be unquestioned... if the Zone didn't abandon its followers, they'd all still be there FIRST ! ... despite all the improvements / enhancements that could have been made with a bit of effort. Most games were played within 4 areas of the Zone - a social / 'play with others', a competitive / 'rated rooms', a Tournaments / Events area, and a 'play against computers / robots' area... perhaps used when players wanted to minimize contact with others. All game rules, and bots play, followed the standard rules; except that there were a few Hearts JOD rooms that incorporated the Jack of Diamonds scoring variation. Beyond that, players wishing to play any Spades Alternate games could use either the regular rooms or Mirrors - Suicide rooms, agreeing on the format or number of hands among themselves... and getting substitute players as necessary (bots WEREN'T capable of playing the Alts games) !

Leagues, even some informal 'social groups' (thinking of the Basement Gang), spent a great amount of time "trying out" various sites and discussing their features, draw-backs, even what the sites were 'promising' quite openly (in the lobbies / forums). Ultimately, many league chose inadequate sites to 'move-to', some even resorted to the Voting Booth to let their members have a voice in the decision... although often fewer than 10% even bothered voting !

Practically all the players found 'things' they hated and wouldn't tolerate with every site they tried... THAT was the thing that really split em up & scattered them around !

Then, around Feb 2009 the Sierra.Hoyle site 'shut-down' (licensing agreement with Hoyle wasn't renewed)... déjà vu all over again, just rather interesting which site their Spades players seemed to gravitate to... and their players were trying several of the then existing sites.

League loyalties were changing in the early 2000's... players left, and many later returned, because they remained at the same site... since 2006, the people really anxious for games simply are playing at multiple sites (more so than in the past), so today, the leagues are competing against other sites as well as with leagues at their own site !

I'm as 'guilty' as anyone... I'm playing at a minimum of 8 game sites... probably 3 on a daily basis, for the variety of games and other players available those sites offer... some of the others a few times a week or per month... and a couple sites may not see me for months. Self-imposed limitations... just 4 Spades leagues, 2 leagues at each of 2 game sites... and since 2 of those leagues just merged, have considered 'giving-up' with leagues there and trying to spend more time with my GP leagues. One big 'issue' that causes my hesitation is what I perceive as great inadequacies with the new ver 2.0 and similar 'complaints' I've heard from other players... both in social & league rooms.

I'd completely agree... the logical thing to do would be for the leagues to all organize into 3 distinct leagues - a Regular Spades Teams league, an Alternates Spades Teams league, and maybe a Singles Spades league (hoping the site would develop a REAL Individual (4 player 'cut-throat', NOT partnership) Spades game. Everyone start 'fresh & equal'; after which the old leagues could be dissolved !

Biggest hurdle to overcome is finding the most qualified to serve as HA and Senior Admins of each league... assisted by other Admin Assistants, Room Helpers, Room Greeters, whatever tasks necessary... kind of a 'training ground' for possible advancement. Decisions about a Rated or Non-Rated room; the frequency of any league tourneys would be whatever the players want and will support. Maybe something new / different I'd encourage would be a "Non-voting HA" and an odd number of voting Admins... be a 'leader', participate in debate, assume the role of a Devil's Advocate to ensure both sides are considered equally, get the others in some agreement / compromise that doesn't necessarily mirror you're exact expectations.

There's gotta be something I'm 'missing' that makes it so difficult to comprehend the need for leagues in the first place... first the players seem to want a smaller group to play and interact with... but then they complain that there aren't enough active players to get a game going (as quickly as they desire)... IS it a "have your cake and eat it, too" situation ???

this is suppose to be for fun, guess thats why i like the tourny rooms, nothing to join. when i feel like playing a tour i just go in and play. i dont have to belong to any group, i can go in with any nic and enter the tourny and play and have fun without anyone bothering me

I do like the idea of reg, alt , and singles leagues and only 3 different leagues but the problem is that just like owning a business admin not want to give a inch on what they built or once had for the dream it may come back. To many chiefs not enough indians. And as much as I do love leagues and seeing the amount of games played and trying to climb ladder and enjoy playing with friends I dont get to play much in leagues anymore and it just keeps getting worse for rarely is there anyone to play with when im on in the league rooms for there is only hand full in each one so i have to play social more. League from what i see and gaming sites not going to change on the subject. Gaming site should only allow 3 leagues and each one has to be different not just in rules but different like on offers reg spades only and one offers only alt games and one singles but not going to happen. And The admin of the leagues should all get toghter and try and get this to for it would help them too but that wont happen either. For down deep think they all want to be chief and Want to be the big dog in gp.

A really great post Wild Bill and I to am from the old zone and completely agree with you.

Think any restrictions a game site could impose - i.e. limiting the number or type of leagues it allowed OR even limiting ALL players to only having a single game / room open at a time would be extremely counter-productive to the mission of the game site itself... to gain the maximum number of active players !!!

Let me just clarify ONE point - with the Two teams leagues I propose - NEITHER would be exclusively Regular or Alts games !!!

Everyone likes a little variety... I meant to say that the Regular league would be the standard game like 75-90 % of the time with occasional Alts games included in the play & tourneys.

Likewise the Alts league would be playing an Alternate / Variation game like 75-90 % of the time with occasional Regular games included in their play & tourneys. The "lucky bums"... I've seen lists of 160+ Alts games (and their rules)... NOT suggesting that all are 'so popular' ! Hee, hee, hee !

You think all people who are HA, started their league purely to be a "chief"? I started our league because I and my friends closest to me were not fully satisfied with what current leagues had to offer, and wanted to offer something extra to GamingPeak. Ever since our league started, I have given 100% to this gaming site that I respect very much for the efforts and work that went into it. There are more to leagues than just a name and the game. Every room has it's own feel. Atmosphere and community are just as important as what game you are playing. This is why a single league idea will never work.

Da Wabbit describes the ideal situation for 'starting' a new league. The basis upon which many start-ups were successful and prospered ! It's just difficult, nearly impossible, to quantify the issues that are so dissatisfying... the offer "something better" is best measured by the ability to retain active players.

But the fact remains that the majority of dissatisfied (whether it's the activity or something else) players are merely shopping / moving around for something better in other existing leagues. I've seen that done several ways, including: players joining leagues and trying to get friends to join them, and players encouraging captains to start another team in different leagues. To the extent that involves smaller numbers of players, who remain league members, they're just becoming shared resources, being of some limited benefit to each of the leagues they've joined.

"Oversimplifying" again, it's when the bleeding becomes hemorrhaging... the mass-exiting begins... there WAS a time for a critical self-assessment: IS the league STILL fulfilling its 'vision' ??? Seems they've neglected the reasons for the small losses and now face the impossible task of corrections that might convince players to return. All of which is further complicated when it's a series of issues whose combined effect is that EACH further weakened the league. The following is intended to be critical of the leagues... NOT the game site mentioned !

My opinion is that the leagues that chose Hardwood gave inadequate consideration to the fact that it's 'use' required "buying" the game as opposed to a "free" game. Many existing members would be resistant to unnecessary 'expenses'... future recruiting would also involve the "purchase" of the game, unless the players were already at Hardwood. That, by itself, restricts growth opportunities !

I'd agree that a SINGLE league idea is unworkable... BUT 'specialized' leagues (Teams - Regular, Teams - Alternate variations, and maybe a Singles league) COULD prove to be a very successful concept !

That's the "place to go" when you want a quick "sit & play" 'ladder' game. IF someone else desires some unique "atmosphere / community" they'd still be free to establish an independent league of their own... they're just forced to face big-time competition !

I'd imagine that the key to success is a HA who IS responsible to some higher authority... who CAN be replaced when they're not correcting a deteriorating situation !